Abstraction

Feb. 4th, 2009 08:22 am
badgerbag: (Default)
[personal profile] badgerbag
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010999.html

What? Oh, that? No of course I'm not talking about that. It's just totally abstract.

Date: 2009-02-04 05:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ithiliana.livejournal.com
So, the hordes of trolls on LJ are now upgraded to....being a cargo cult?

Wow. WOW. Does she have no historical knowledge of the context of colonialism in which that terminology arose???

Date: 2009-02-04 05:25 pm (UTC)
ext_134: by ladyjax (Default)
From: [identity profile] ladyjax.livejournal.com

Wow. WOW. Does she have no historical knowledge of the context of colonialism in which that terminology arose???


I don't think she cares which is why I'll never assume any good intentions on her part when it comes to discussions about race.

Date: 2009-02-04 05:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
That entry's not by Teresa. It's from Patrick.

Date: 2009-02-04 06:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ithiliana.livejournal.com
Thanks--I saw that when I went to link myself.

So does he not have any knowledge!

Date: 2009-02-04 07:31 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-02-04 07:08 pm (UTC)
ext_134: by ladyjax (Default)
From: [identity profile] ladyjax.livejournal.com
Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it. Sadly, my initial thoughts still stand.

Date: 2009-02-04 07:14 pm (UTC)
ext_28681: (Default)
From: [identity profile] akirlu.livejournal.com
No point in being swayed by facts.

Date: 2009-02-05 12:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tekanji.livejournal.com
No point in being swayed by facts.

Seriously? I mean, seriously?

Although I can't speak for [livejournal.com profile] ladyjax, it's pretty damn insulting to assume that she based her assertion only on that post and therefore to hold on to her opinion is to refuse to be "swayed by the facts".

The point (at least from where I'm sitting) is that when the assumption was that Teresa, not Patrick, had wrote it the post was yet another example of why Teresa's intentions shouldn't be trusted. That it's no longer on the table as evidence doesn't change that. From what I know of the issue, [livejournal.com profile] ladyjax has her "facts" pretty dead on.

Date: 2009-02-05 12:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tekanji.livejournal.com
To clarify, by "That it's no longer on the table as evidence doesn't change that," I was saying that it doesn't affect the original evidence that presumably led to [livejournal.com profile] ladyjax forming her opinion (and, believe me, there is more than enough evidence without that post to find Teresa's intentions questionable).

Date: 2009-02-04 07:31 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-02-04 07:08 pm (UTC)
ext_28681: (Default)
From: [identity profile] akirlu.livejournal.com
Postcolonial theory is not the same discipline as history, actually, and is hardly universal.

Date: 2009-02-04 07:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
and is hardly universal.

It's especially not universal for the metropolis in charge of colonisation.

Date: 2009-02-04 07:44 pm (UTC)
ext_28681: (Default)
From: [identity profile] akirlu.livejournal.com
True enough, but is that because of racism and privilege exclusively, or is it possible that in part it's because it's not all very good as *theory*? Moreover, and here's what I was pointing at, there is a difference between theory and fact, and blaming someone for not adhering to the same theoretical grounding as you seems, well, a bad basis for communications or understanding.

Date: 2009-02-04 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
there is a difference between theory and fact

Oh, go on. Tell us why the discipline of history is factual and universal and how that discredits postcolonial theory. And try not to blame postcolonialists for not adhering to the same theory as you. You wouldn't want to have a bad basis for communications or understanding.

Date: 2009-02-04 08:13 pm (UTC)
ext_28681: (Default)
From: [identity profile] akirlu.livejournal.com
Sorry, that wasn't what I was trying to say. History as a discipline has all sorts of theoretical approaches, all of which have their own biases. What I was trying to get at was an assumption in this: "Does she have no historical knowledge of the context of colonialism ".

The key phrase I was aiming at is "historical knowledge" in reference to whether tnh (actually as it turns out, pnh, but hey) is aware of Postcolonial prisions of the context of the term "cargo cult". That just looks a lot like assuming that the Postcolonial take is established fact -- something that counts as knowlege -- that one would be blameworthy for not knowing and taking into account. I'm just trying to say that it's dubious to assume that there is such a thing as "historical knowledge of the context of colonialism" that anyone outside of Postcolonial theory adherents is responsible for knowing and taking into account.

Date: 2009-02-04 09:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
You're reading unwarranted assumptions into [livejournal.com profile] ithiliana's question. The irony of which, if you can see it, you should be able to appreciate.

And again you're on a bad basis arguing "facts" as "something that counts as knowledge" (!?!?) "that one would be blameworthy for not knowing and taking into account" because what you're doing is holding up a set of universal values as the rug you want to pull out from under that whole problematic "Post Modern theoretical approach" from this subthread [Post Colonial variant]. Which, again: ironic on an order of magnitude beyond what you give in example in reply to [livejournal.com profile] badgerbag below.

Date: 2009-02-04 08:30 pm (UTC)
ext_6167: (Default)
From: [identity profile] delux-vivens.livejournal.com
To me? Its not even worth getting upset about. Its a convenient distraction-- 'yay let talk about this book about cargo cults' is way easier to deal with than say 'let's talk about a broken flute'.

Date: 2009-02-05 03:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anahcrow.livejournal.com
What I found so ironic is that when you read it, it struck me as exactly what the people on the pantsless side of the fail were doing. "Intent is everything" and so on.

Date: 2009-02-05 03:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daedala.livejournal.com
Me too! I saw the link from another source, and I thought it was a pretty useful way to look at what was going on.

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